135. Designing the Disney Wish (Imagineering Disney Cruise Line with Theron Skees)

Disney Cruise Line’s newest ship, the Disney Wish sets sail this summer (2022), and I had the opportunity to chat with former Walt Disney Imagineer and Portfolio Creative Executive of Disney Cruise Line, Theron Skees about the design of this newest ship. In this episode, I chat with Theron about the Imagineers’ approach to designing a cruise ship, attractions and amenities we can look forward to the Disney Wish (including the Aquamouse, Disney’s first ever attraction at sea), and reasons to consider sailing with Disney Cruise Line. Be sure to learn more about Theron and follow him online by visiting his website. When will you next sail with the Disney Wish or another Disney Cruise Line ship?

[Intro music plays Matt in and continues to play under him]

Matt: Hello and welcome to the Imagineer Podcast, your unofficial guide to all things Disney. I’m your host Matthew Krul and you’re listening to Episode 135 of the Imagineer Podcast, in today’s podcast episode we’re going to welcome back former Walt Disney Imagineer Theron Skees to talk about another subject relating to another area of Disney where Theron has done quite a lot of work, and that is Disney Cruise Line. Theron has had a number of different roles at Walt Disney Imagineering in case you’ve listened back to previous episodes of the show where we’d had him as a guest. And one of those roles was the portfolio creative executive for Disney Cruise Line, a role where he had oversight of the existing fleet of ships the Disney Magic, Disney Wonder, Disney Dream, and Disney Fantasy. And he also had the oversight of the work that was done on Disney Cruise Line’s newest ship, the Disney Wish, which is setting sail this summer of 2022. So in this podcast episode, I chat with Theron about his work on Disney Cruise Line, and more specifically, the efforts in helping to design the Disney Wish and some things that you can look forward to, when you set sail with Disney Wish this summer or any other time you set sail with Disney Cruise Line. We talk a little bit about some of the attractions and dining experiences, entertainments, staterooms, and so much more before we kick off this episode. As always, I want to give a special thanks to our sponsor and partner WDW Magazine. You can learn more about WDW Magazine by clicking on the link in the show notes below or heading to imagineerpodcast.com, we’ve got a link there or just go to WDWmagazine.com where you can read articles about Walt Disney World, and those include articles written by yours truly; I write an Imagineering column for this magazine. At the end of the episode, we’ll come back and I’ll tell you a little bit more about how you can connect with the Imagineer Podcast on all your favorite social media channels and how you can help to inspire and create the future of the show. So grab some headphones, pull up your favorite arm share and enjoy this episode of The Imagineer Podcast.

[Music fades out as interview begins]

Matt: On Imagineer Podcast, we’ve had the opportunity to chat about so many projects across Walt Disney World, Disneyland, and select attractions around the globe. But one property we have yet to discuss, but will rectify today, is Disney Cruise Line. Since 1995 Disney Cruise Line has been the premier cruise line for families, Disney fans, and cruisers of all ages, combining world class Disney service, entertainment, dining amenities, and of course, Imagineering design, to transport guests to ports of call around the globe. Today Disney Cruise Line’s fleet consists of four ships the Disney Wonder, Disney Magic, Disney Dream, and Disney Fantasy, with the fifth ship, Disney Wish, setting sail this summer on its inaugural cruise. So my guest on today’s episode is former Walt Disney Imagineer Theron Skees as the vice president and portfolio creative executive for Disney Cruise Line Theron maintained creative oversight of Disney’s existing fleet of four ships as well as the design and construction of the Disney Wish. In previous roles, Theron also developed such projects as Disney Springs including Jock Lindsey’s Hangar Bar, the expansion of Walt Disney Studios Park in Paris, the upgrade of Tower of Terror at Walt Disney World, and much more, all of which you can learn more about in previous episodes of Imagineer Podcasts. Needless to say, this is probably the longest introduction I’ve ever done for a guest, but I’m very excited to chat about Disney Cruise Line and welcome back Theron Skees, Theron welcome back to Imagineer Podcast.

Theron: Thanks, Matt. And hi, everybody. Thanks for joining. I’ve been really looking forward to this because I’m a huge cruise fan. And the opportunity to work on Disney Cruise Line was a kind of a once in a lifetime dream to be able to do that. So I’m I’m really excited for this.

Matt: Absolutely. I’m excited as well. For those listening to the podcast. This is a live discussion too. So we’re getting questions from viewers who are watching on Facebook and YouTube. I would encourage you if you’re not following Imagineer Podcast in those places, but listening to this podcast episode to go back and make sure you’re following there, so you are able to participate in live discussions like these in the future. So we’re gonna get to any questions you all have, feel free, as I mentioned to leave them in the comments, but I came prepared with questions of my own as well, because I had so many questions. You know, Disney Cruise Line is a topic I haven’t discussed yet on the show. And there’s so much to uncover. So I want to start just by discussing Disney Cruise Line as a whole, how does in your experience Theron, Disney think about the cruise experience relative to both other cruise offerings that are out there, and also relative to other Disney park experiences?

Theron: Well, I think you nailed it on the head actually, in your question is that other cruise lines don’t have the advantage of hotels and theme parks and a really deep portfolio of intellectual property and storylines to play with. They also don’t have, many of them, a very rich history of entertaining guests, and the the type of brand that builds that equity with families the feeling of safety and trust. So I think in a sense, it made perfect sense for Disney to move into the cruise industry. Because it the the brand just kind of begged for it. What is I find very fascinating about a cruise vacation that’s very different than a vacation a vacation to one of our one of Disney’s parks, is that typically when you’re going say I live in Orlando, so typically in Walt Disney World, a family would come in and they’re booking I don’t know, a week, maybe two weeks worth of time. And I know you’ve done this before Matt as well, you’re you know, you’re getting your fast passes, your dining reservations, and you’re you’re here and they’re there. And you’re at Epcot and the Studios and Magic Kingdom. And as fun as it is, it can be exhausting, 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: because you’re, it’s so big you’re trying to do so much. And what I’ve heard back from guests, when I worked on the cruise line, Disney Cruise guests is it it is so relaxing, to be immersed in the brand for a substantial amount of time, right? We I used to always tell my team, nobody goes to Space Mountain and stays there for seven days. 

Matt: That’s right

Theron: Right? But we have, there are plenty of cruises that are seven day cruises and and you’re you immerse yourself in that brand for that period of time. And it’s a really different experience.

Matt: That’s a that’s a great way to to think about it. And we’re going to, of course get more specific about the ways that Disney thinks about the cruise experience. And and some of the projects that you worked on specifically within Disney Cruise Line. And we should probably start by discussing your role. And I like to frame the conversation in that way. You have a title that I have asked other Imagineers about yours is the double title though. So it’s a little different, which is why I do want to start here and also get some of your thoughts about this. So your your role, your title for Disney Cruise Line was the vice president and portfolio creative executive for Disney Cruise Line. In a nutshell, what does that mean? 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: What was your role? What is a vice president or portfolio creative executive of Disney Cruise Line do?

Theron: That’s a great question. What’s interesting is if you were to look at the look at my business card, it didn’t say vice president, it just said creative portfolio executive. And what I find interesting is what that is, that worked really good in the Disney bubble. But when you’re working with vendors, and you hand that to them, they say, portfolio, can you tell me about these stocks? Because, you know, should I go to bonds? Or should I stay with securities? And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no portfolio is you know, and you ended up explaining yourself. So now that I’m no longer with Disney, I run my own business, you can see that you needed to put the term vice president in front of that, because it others begin to understand that a lot easier. 

Matt: Right.

Theron: So I I started the role in 2016. I had literally just come off of Disney Springs, and was really honored to be able to take that kind of a role and a portfolio executive in Imagineering terms was literally you think about it as as Walt Disney World as a portfolio. You think of Euro Disneyland, right? Disneyland Paris as a portfolio, you think of Asia as a portfolio, etc. So the way that Imagineering set it up was that there was a senior executive creative individual who was kind of oversaw that was, the key partner with the operational leaders. And then of course there was so if I was creative, there was also a delivery senior executive in a sense, we were kind of like that little two headed monster there. And in a sense, we partner daily with the the leader of the operation. So we work directly with the president of the cruise line of which there were four [laughs]. During my time there, a a a a bit of a rotating door there as Chapek took over, and and some some other changes happen, which as you could imagine, makes design quite difficult when the leader is, is changing like that. But that’s, that’s basically what the role was overseeing all creative, and partnering very closely with the operations team. So at the time, there were the existing fleet of four ships, we were initially going to be designing two new ships. So it was on the same type of schedule as the Dream and the Fantasy. And then sometime after I started, I think it was within the first year, it was surprise, we’re going to do three ships. 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: So the the the the interesting thing about ship design is you you do the the the design of the all the decks, and all of the different rooms, if you will, it’s called a GA a general arrangement. You do that once, and then that’s last for all three ships. And then you have to make some very specific decisions about a lot of the public areas that are the same for all three ships. So not only were was I in in charge of the existing fleet, that was anything new that was done, and every year, we had a ship and drydock the three new ships, Castaway Cay, but we also and and I I don’t know too many people who can say this in their career. So I really have fun saying it, Disney purchased another island destination in that time, so we got to masterplan and, and dream about what that would be as well in the Bahamas.

Matt: Which is so cool. And that’s something we’re gonna definitely have to talk about, as well. You know, because you’re you’re not only talking about designing experiences for the ship, but also then the, the, you know, port of call, whether it’s, you know, anything that, well, in in this case, anything that that Disney directly purchased, or or has the rights to, to use the land. You know, there’s we we you kind of touched on this a little bit. And this was a question that was sent in previously before we started this live event. So I did want to make sure to bring up some of these previously submitted questions as well. 

Theron: Great 

Matt: How does designing a cruise line differ from designing a theme park? And I feel like we’ve touched on this a little bit in previous episodes of the show, but I am curious to get your, your thoughts here.

Theron: I’m so glad actually that that question came up. Because it’s a it’s a pretty big difference. If you think of the obvious things. The obvious differences is a theme park involves a lot of outdoor spaces, and a theme park itself, a Disney theme park, is connected by story. That’s what makes it a theme park. 

Matt: Right

Theron: If it’s a collection of experiences, entertainment, ride based, you know, etc. And those experiences aren’t linked in any kind of way. That’s an amusement park. Amusement parks like to call themselves theme parks, because you get more, you you get more customers. But the reality is the theme park is under a general story. And all of the experiences that you have are linked they’re choreographed. And and a part of that choreography of that experience for the guests, involves a lot of outdoor spaces. And what’s really fun about that medium of storytelling, is you have some very, very large, large spaces to play with. And and you can tell some really great stories without kind of any hindrances, right, it’s huge. The exact opposite is true on the ship. It is all about interior spaces. And even though there are some spectacular interior spaces, and you know, you have multiple decks that are open, like the Disney atrium, and things, it’s primarily interior spaces. So you really have to adjust from a design perspective, you have to adjust the way that you think about moving people through the space. That might have been a bit of a downer 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: For some of your audience members because we always, you know, as Imagineers, Imagineers always talk about story and place and experience and magic and even though that’s super important to Imagineers there’s a lot of practical things about design that is as is important as those and that is moving people through a space if you don’t have a space wide enough for double strollers, right? It you know, somebody’s going to not be happy. Got to have a space for firetrucks etc. So it’s a it is a totally different mindset from a space design perspective when you when you do that on a ship. So that’s one two storytelling is basically the same, Imagineers take a very, very similar approach as to what is done on land. But one thing I mentioned in my earlier answer was nobody stays in Space Mountain for seven days. 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: And the idea is, is that the ships themselves get a lot of scrutiny, just because you’re living on board and you, you’re excited as a guest to explore every single, you know, corner of the ship. And and that, that adds a lot of scrutiny to every single square inch.

Matt: Yeah, it really does and is worth mentioning that point o r or kind of hitting on that point that you you don’t live in Space Mountain for seven days, but you are going to be really living in the ship for a while. So I know in that previous conversation, we talked about making sure that you’re not you you you can enjoy and be immersed in the story and have these entertaining experiences. But you also need time to be able to say I need to to step away and even beyond just going back to your stateroom be in a space where you aren’t necessarily being thrown into a story, [laughs] I mean a . . .

Theron: Right

Matt: a story driven, still a story driven environment, but more of a passive story driven environment for for that period of time. Because you did bring up space. This was a question that I had thought of, and I am curious, I think a lot of people might be you know, interested in hearing the same thing. There are different size cruise ships with Disney Cruise Line and with other cruises and and even if you look at a Disney Cruise Line ship the Disney Magic or the Disney Wonder next to a competing cruise line ship there’s, there’s so many different potential sizes for something like this. And I suppose it’s similar to thinking about how you would design a hotel and the number of hotel rooms that there would be do you in terms of the approach to designing a cruise ship? Do you start with okay, this is the size of the ship that we’re working with? And here’s what we can pack into the space? Or do you flip that model and start with all the experiences that you and amenities and number of staterooms that you want in the cruise ship and then build the size of the ship around those experiences?

Theron: That’s a great question. I I I think one thing that’s so unique about Disney Cruise Line, and anyone that’s cruised on other vessels with other cruise lines, and you’re in a port, somewhere in the world and a Disney Cruise Line, the ship shows up. I mean, it’s, it’s completely different than any other ship, it really is. Everybody rushes to the edges of the ships and to see the the the Disney Cruise Ship pull into port. And that’s because Disney looks at the whole ship as a brand statement. It’s it’s meant to evoke this sort of golden age of, of ocean travel, right. That’s why it’s designed the way that it is that big, you know bow that sticks out front, that’s sits very kind of pointy, and the back that’s really roundy you know, that very specific design is only about design. The reason you see other ships that have a blunt nose, and a blunt, you know stern is because you can squeeze much more square footage into that, right. That’s why they look like refrigerators floating on the water is because 

Matt: Right [laughs]

Theron: they are maximizing the space. In a sense, Disney, of course wants to maximize the space, but the brand, the look, the feel, the shape, the story that is communicated just from the visual aspect of looking at the ship is way more important to the Disney brand than gaining another 100,000 square feet. So I just wanted to put that out there cause I think that’s really important. That’s where you start with. That’s both exciting and fun as a as a design executive. But it also creates a lot of challenges. Because Disney as a business is no different than other cruise lines. They want as much as you can possibly get on the ship. But they know that they’re bracketed in by those brand constraints with regard to the design, so we had to be extremely innovative in the way that we thought about space design. And to answer your question, I think if you would think about it, I think we’ve talked about this before the approach to building a theme park or an attraction or a land. There are brand requirements, there are storytelling, you know, requirements that are that are a part of that. But also sorry to disappoint anybody that hasn’t thought of this. There’s very specific business requirements for that as well. We have to move this many people, we need a restaurant to handle this many people we need, you know, retail, etc. It’s a business at the end of the day. And it’s no different with the with the ship, there’s a very specific amount of passengers that need to be carried. And that dictates all of the other spaces on the ship. And it’s, if you don’t mind, I’ll just at the risk of talking too much [laughs]

Matt: No this is great, keep going.

Theron: I’ll I’ll I’ll go I’ll go one, one more, which you kind of hinted at in your question. I think your audience might find this interesting. You know, we the Disney Cruise Line started with the Magic and the Wonder those are quite a bit smaller ships. I’m gonna sure get the capacities wrong. It’s been so many, quite a few years now. I think those are a little more than 2000. Then you move into, no, I’m sorry. 4000, then you move into Fantasy and Dream that’s like 6000, no, I I’m getting that wrong. Forgive me

Matt: We’ll we’ll look up the data after and plug it into the show notes [laughs]

Theron: Forgive me, yeah, the the two classic ships, as they’re called have a quite a bit, I think it’s around 2000, quite a bit smaller capacity, Dream and Fantasy up the capacity by quite a few tons, and I believe are into the 4000 range, and north of three, and and all of the new ships will be in that range as well. They’re around 4000, I believe. And what’s interesting is the feedback that you get from a lot of guests is that they, some guests don’t like to sail on the Dream and the Fantasy because they think it’s too big. And they like the intimacy of the smaller vessels, which I find very fascinating, because most of the industry was all about bigger, you know, Oasis of the Seas 6000 plus people and so it’s an interesting trend, for sure. 

Matt: Yeah, it definitely is, there is a few things to extract from this. And I want to go back to the point about the, it just slipped the top of my head. So I’m gonna go to another point. I’m gonna pivot. Jason, there was two things I wanted to go with. And I totally forgot one of the one of the questions I was going with. Jason has submitted a question which I’m I’m going to add to this as well. So he asked, what do you consider to be the most magical about Disney Cruise Line? The most magical thing about Disney Cruise Line? And I imagine part of that is the Disney name, of course being associated with that, and you can see the characters on board but going a a layer deeper. What do you consider to be the most magical about Disney Cruise Line? Or maybe even you know, going back to our first question, what are the specific things that make a Disney Cruise different?

Theron: Wow, we could probably take the rest of the show just talking about that. But I I I’ll be focused here. I think Disney Cruise Line is really caters very, very well to Disney fans. And and I mean it caters to everybody, even adults without children sail on Disney Cruise Line, because it’s a really great experience, the food is very, very good, the entertainment very, very good, the retail, the service is second to none in the industry, the service and and I know I benchmarked every single cruise line, eight different sailings in every single region of the world before we started design on the Wish, just to understand what was out there. So the experiences is fantastic. But when you think about fans, Disney fans, people who really love the brand, when you’re in a theme park, a land based experience, you’re literally going from place to place to as I mentioned before, the pace is very different. Not that it’s bad. It’s just very different. The service you get because of that, because you’re not in a place for very long. The services is is good. It’s, you know, should be it’s Disney service. But it’s not like you get on the ship. So for me if you if you take your Disney glasses off for just a second. And you think about it in terms of the of the industry. The industry of themed entertainment design is about really two things, escapism and play, right, play as a group is so important as a human being and escapism is massively important. You know, the world and our individual lives is often a place that we need to escape from to get a break from. When you do that in the parks. It’s you get the escapism, you get the play, you get the fun, you get the fantasy, but there’s a pace to it. You don’t have that on the cruise line, and instead you get this more fully immersive, completely encompassing all Disney, all the time kind of experience. And that doesn’t mean Donald Duck dancing in your face, it doesn’t mean that, it means all of the great things that you love about Disney is like on steroids. It’s magnified, the service is amazing. You build really great relationships with all of the crew members on board, you get so much more intimate time with experiences onboard with characters with your family with groups. So it’s it’s kind of like escapism and play, but really maximize to the best possible level.

Matt: That’s a great way of putting it and you you should be a salesperson for Disney Cruise Line 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: In addition to doing the Imagineering because you sold me on that, for sure. Christina’s sent in by the way, this is what’s great about going live, you have people fact checking for you. 

Theron: Awesome

Matt: So Christina said that according to the Disney Cruise Line news site, the Dream has a 4000 guest capacity 

Theron: Okay

Matt: and 1458 crew, so 

Theron: Okay, I got there eventually. Thank you 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: very much for the assistance. [Laughs]

Matt: It’s a hey It’s I I, I I you know, I’m a Disney fan. And I I pride myself on knowing a lot of facts and statistics. 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: And you know, half the time even in a podcast episode, I totally misquote something. So but you did you did get there.

Theron: It’s nice to know that we’re human. [Laughs]

Matt: [Laughs] That’s true. The actually great question from Alan, you and I talked a little bit about the in the beginning, before we started, you know, before we hit the Live button before we started officially recording this episode a little bit about, you know, seasickness. And so that’s one of the reasons why I haven’t cruised yet. But I think Theron you kind of convinced me I need to, 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: and others have convinced me as well. But Alan asked specifically about the the stability of the larger ships with regards to rocking motion. And I’m gonna, I’m going to, again, dive a little bit deeper into this question as well. So you know, so are the larger ships steadier? And I think in general, they probably have less motion than the you know, smaller boat, a little little boat in the water is going to be a lot more more rocky. And so the larger ships probably have more. But what else does Disney do to from an Imagineering perspective, or from a design perspective to ensure a smooth sailing experience for guests on board to the best of their ability?

Theron: Sure, and that, and I’m glad you added that, because I think any, any ship, you when you’re have an experience cruising, you’re contending with a natural source, right. And even the captain of the vessel, you know, she may not, she may be the best possible captain of her age of her time. But there’s just only so much you can do when the wind and the waves act a certain way. So that said that aside, you’re right that the larger ships have additional stability. Some of that I’m and I’m not a nautical architect, I just play one on TV. 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: So the larger ships a, because of their weight have  a a a sense of stability, and they’re not moved as much by smaller, or by waves a let’s say it that way. But there’s also something that you may not have thought of, within the Disney fleet, the original ships, the Magic and the Wonder, when those ships were built, the technology that goes into stabilizing vessels wasn’t as perfected as it is today. So on the newer vessels, you get a lot of stability, engineering, if you will, that’s built in even the hull shape, hull design. The the not to get too detailed, but the Magic and the Wonder, are exactly what you would expect. There’s a a long shaft and a propeller or sorry, a screw at the end of it. And that’s what turns and that’s what propels the ship. And that’s propelled ships for 100 years or something. But with the moving and everything those things sometimes vibrate and they create vibration in the ship the newer vessels don’t they actually have what is like an outboard motor that sticks out of, sorry, here we go sticks out of the bottom of the the hull and actually turns and has the screws built into them. So very much like your you know, ski boat or whatever, very, very interesting stuff so that the ship is very, very stable. The other thing is last comment is that the technology onboard the ship can do so much, can see so far with radar, that they do a really good job predicting where things are coming and they can actually change course to avoid choppier weather and that kind of thing. So [laughs] quite a few great ways there.

Matt: That’s great, yeah, that’s that’s great. I I love that there are so many different ways and I know that the technologies gonna continue to improve over time. It’s the same thing with air travel, you design airlines, and not airlines, aircraft to better navigate air air turbulence and be able to detect weather and have more stability in the design of the of the actual craft. It’s a very similar philosophy that’s involved there. I did remember the question I wanted to go back to sometimes it takes a while, dad brain is a real thing for me these days, 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: I used to do much more quick on my feet. And now it’s a little harder for me to get to that question I was thinking of. So the I think it came up from the idea of Magic. You know, there’s all these great names of the ships, and they’re so simple, and they’re so profound, the Disney Magic, Disney Wonder, Disney Fantasy, Disney Dream, and now Disney Wish. How does the Imagineering team work through the process of deciding on a name? And does it, it’s almost like writing a title of a book, like do you start with the title of the book? Or do you write the book and then decide what the title is? So how do you you know, at what stage in the process do you decide, okay, this is the Disney Wish.

Theron: Well, I I know that the, if you think of Disney Cruise Line being around for over 20 years, the history of naming the vessels and creating the styling and the brand kind of look of the vessels as we talked about. To make it uniquely Disney, you would want to name them along side, all of the the the brand identity that you would imagine with Disney. So if you when you start to mention those words, dream, fantasy, wish, you know, magic, wonder, all of those things uniquely associate your experience as a guest with a Disney product. So I think that that from a marketing perspective is really important, but also from a storytelling perspective is really, really important. One of the things that we did in ’16, 2016, when we were concepting, the new ships, and I believe this has been released, if not, the the the lawyers will give me a call. 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: But the our approach to naming and designing the three new ships was an evolution from what began, what began was if you go to the Fantasy, which was the the newest the the the last ship that was released, there’s a name of the vessel Fantasy, there’s a a stern character, don’t ask me to remember what it was, there’s a stern character, Christina, you have to get on that. 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: And in the in the lobby, there is a sculpture inside the lobby, in the atrium rather. And then there’s a design motif. And those are not always connected. Well, the name the everything. So what we decided to do we pitch the idea to Iger, that what if we connected all of those? What if the name, the design motif of the ship, the stern character, and the sculpture in the atrium, all tied in together and reinforced the theme that the name itself generated, and they loved the idea, so that was the direction that we went. So when you’re on board the Wish, we took the idea of ‘wish’ and completely unfolded that and built we we collected IP from all over the company that would fit within the idea of ‘wish’. So everything on board really embodies the Disney brand idea of what ‘wish’ means. So if you’re thinking in your head, and you’re thinking in ahead to the next couple of years, when the names of the other ships get released, you’ll remember this podcast, I hope, and you’ll think wow, that means you changed some spaces on the subsequent two ships to accommodate the new names. And the answer would be yes, because we wanted each vessel to uniquely embody its own experiences. In fact, you’ll we can talk about this too. But we also crew during the almost five years that I was there, when we went to the dry docks, we were replacing spaces with unique spaces. So Tiana’s Place for example, on the Wonder that’s unique, it doesn’t exist anywhere else in the whole fleet. It won’t, unless somebody changes their mind. But the original leadership, everybody wanted to create unique experiences on each of the ships just like in our theme parks. There’s a big difference between Epcot, Animal Kingdom, the Studios, and those differences those unique stories and experiences, drive guests to want to experience every single one of them. So our pitch to the company was, let’s do this with the vessels. Not only do you have the Magic that travels to Europe, and you can go for those destinations, but there’s also unique aspects of the Magic that you can’t get on any other ship. So I was really excited that our team was able to introduce this idea to the company and then follow through with it.

Matt: It It’s such a brilliant idea. Christina said Dumbo, by the way. 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: So Christina came in again, 

Theron: Yes

Matt: with the with the right answer [laughs]

Theron: That’s awesome [laughs]

Matt: But no, I I love that. And this was a question that was submitted previously, and one that I should get to as well, it kind of, you know, touches on the that last point that you made, there are, you know, constantly Disney Cruise Line is adding more ships, and there’s a pretty large, pretty large gap pretty large period of time between when these ships are created. And so, you talk you talked a little bit about the the sort of the story driving some of the the things that are unique that you might only be able to get on certain ships, but what you know, how does Imagineering decide, Okay, these are the things that we should keep and replicate. And maybe it’s, you know, some design changes here or there. But, you know, the, the, the stateroom design, for instance, like the this is something that we should keep the same or we should alter it or, you know, at the front of the ship, we always have a you know, a deck that faces this way or you know, is designed this way, long story short, how you decide, what are the things that you’re going to, you know, sort of replicate and maybe make tweaks to versus the more substantial changes or additions that you’re going to make to the fleet.

Theron: I I think one of the overall unique and really positive aspects of the Disney company is that the process that you just mentioned, is looked at through multiple filters, right, it’s not just a business filter that says, you know, we need to make more money, so we need to change this space, 

Matt: Right

Theron: or at least it never was, I can’t vouch for the way it is today. So I’m sticking with what I know from my tradition, with a with Imagineering and with Disney, so you you would you would evaluate a space based on what guests say about it, you know, guests are free to comment and and guests do thousands of letters come into the company. And even as at Imagineering, I’ve gotten guest letters that have come to me when I’m in charge of a venue, whether that’s the, at the time Disney MGM Studios or or Hong Kong, you know, a letter would come through, and it would go to me, you need to look at this, you know, so guests talk about it. Creatively, we might have a new technology, we might have a new IP that we can explore that we think could be even more relevant to guests, or operationally, functionally, you know, you learn a lot about a space when you, you know, you think so hard about it, you put all your heart and soul into making it beautiful, and functional, and memorable, and relevant. But when you’re open and you have a million guests or more go through, you learn a lot, and sometimes it requires tweaking. So I guess my answer would be, it’s not just one person enthrone that, you know, slams their fist down, and then you have to go make changes. My experience was that it was evaluated for multiple aspects, sometimes, creatively, we would come in with a with an idea, functionally, it may have worked perfectly, it may have had the right capacity, it may have been, you know, doing a lot to build brand equity, guests may have really liked it, but this idea is even more relevant is even better, and vice versa. You know, maybe sometimes Imagineering is called because gosh, operationally, it’s just not efficient, we need to do something here. And then we’re able to come in and solution, something that that works with the story, or sometimes change the story to suit a better operational flow or something like that. It the the the picture that I’m trying to paint is this idea that it’s it’s unified, it’s meshed together, you can’t really do one without the other. A purely creative space with no thought for function is going to be horrible. And and vice versa, right, a purely functional space without any thought for creativity is not it’s gonna be horrible. 

Matt: Yeah

Theron: So it’s that it’s that unique, very, very careful balance. And on the ship, it’s harder than anywhere else, any other venue to achieve that.

Matt: Yeah, and that definitely answers my question. It also touches into another question that I had, which was about guest feedback, cause I, I already knew the answer to that question. 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: I kind of I was, I was leading you into it cause you and I have spoken before and I know how important guest feedback is to designing anything and you know, we talked about it a lot with Disney, the the evolution or you know, of or the transformation of Downtown Disney to Disney to Disney Springs and how much guest feedback was involved there. And I I knew it’d be a very similar story here as well 

Theron: Absolutely

Matt: The, you know, there we were talking a little bit about the the design of the ship as a whole and and one of the things I I definitely want to talk about specifically because I I feel like it, again I haven’t personally been on a cruise, but I feel like if if I were to go on a cruise, this would be the thing that I would think a lot about, because it’s how I also think about resort stays, and that is dining. You know, what am I going to eat? You know, what are the different offerings and you know, sort of my my days if a resort days are often, actually every day is kind of revolves around food for me. 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: So, how do you think about

Theron: You’re in good company

Matt: or how [laughs] yeah [laughs], how does Imagineering let’s partner with the culinary team on on thinking about dining, both the the you know, the spaces that are that are gonna be involved as well as the specific culinary offerings at those locations. Cause I feel like this is true for theme parks and Disney Cruise Line and Disney resorts in general. There has been this this I feel increased partnership between Imagineering and the culinary team, if you just look at even, you know, Star Wars Galaxy’s Edge, or if 

Theron: Yeah

Matt: you look at Pandora, the World of Avatar, or if you look at you know, Star Wars Galactic Starcruiser, which is now technically like a resort that has this really interesting and unique dining with out of this world, you know, food and drink and beverage options, 

Theron: Right

Matt: snack options. You know, so how how does Imagineering, how did you partner with, if you did, the culinary team to think about the spaces and the options that are available in those spaces?

Theron: That’s a really great question I should mention, before I get into that level of detail, for those audience members that have actually never sailed with Disney, there’s the Disney Cruise Line offers something that doesn’t exist really on any other vessel with any other cruise line, and they call it rotational dining. Other cruise lines have tried it and they have not been successful at it. What what makes it really unique for those of you who haven’t been on it is that there is a a dinnertime and a a live show, a big Broadway style performance. And Disney put it together as those were sort of the two big events of the night. And it’s in two different time slots, there’s an earlier dining time, which I believe is around like 5:45, something like that, and families would be assigned to a restaurant, and then those other guests, other passengers on board, would instead of dining at that particular time, they would go to the live performance first, and and that’s the rotation. So when dinner was over, the show was over, it was baked in that that time to to have that occur. And then they literally flip-flopped, those that went to the entertainment, you know, the the show first ate at a later time, those that ate early go to the later show is a little bit of time in between, obviously. So this is really, really unique to Disney Cruise Line. And one of the things that that really does is it responds to the needs of families. I have sailed on a lot of different cruise lines. And even though you look at the cruise lines, and you say wow, there’s 25 restaurant selections, what they don’t tell you is that if you don’t reserve those in advance, there’s a very good chance that you won’t get into eat. So my wife and I found ourselves going to 2, 3, 4, 5 different restaurants trying to find a place to eat because they don’t have capacity for 6800 people on board. 

Matt: Yeah

Theron: And they expect a lot of people to do very casual dining. And and then but you they, what happens is you have a lot of people that want to do formal, sit-down, enjoyable dining, so it’s a bit of a mess. That’s the uniqueness of Disney, but I I should say, yes, there’s an enormous amount of collaboration with the culinary team. They do what they do expert, expertly and the Imagineers do what they do expertly. And oftentimes, and the trend, certainly that that found its way onto the new ships was to build some dining venues with entertainment, right? So if you if you remember the animation Animator’s Palette, right? You’re onboard and you have this amazing animation show going on, Crush the turtle comes and talks to you while you’re dining. I mean, it’s super cool. Well, that idea of an entertainment dining experience was so popular that we obviously took that and moved that on to the new vessels as well in all new designs, so very different from what you’d find on other cruise lines.

Matt: It is very different and you you definitely brought up a couple of great points there. Question that came in specific for you personally, of the dining options, what is your favorite and I’ll I’ll give you two options, your favorites dining location, so like restaurant at on any of the ships, or if you have a favorite go to meal at that location or at another location.

Theron: When my children were young, and we were sailing, we, I would probably say Animator’s Palette, because it was amazing, and the kids were so engaged. And when the Fantasy and the Dream came out, you, the kids had a placemat, and they could draw their character, whatever they wanted on there. And then they would turn that in, and Disney would turn that into an animated moving character, your crayon drawing. And there would be a big parade on the screens of all of the characters that the kids drew. It was really, really fun. Now that my kids are all grown, in fact, I have a grandbaby being born this month, believe it or not. 

Matt: Congratulations. 

Theron: Thank you so much. I think one of the areas that we love a lot is Palo’s. But Palo’s for brunch, amazing, amazing experience, incredible brunch, it’s at the front of the ship. So you you, you see you know you have an incredibly good view. I would say that and and I’m not giving you one, right, I’m I’m giving you a variety. And then lastly, I would say Remy’s is absolutely amazing. It’s a two Michelin star chef. And what you pay to eat there, you you do have to pay an upcharge, I’m not sure what it is now. I think it’s $90, maybe something around there. But for a Michelin star, two Michelin star experience. And the the entire thing is based on Ratatouille, it’s really amazing.

Matt: I feel like that would be my favorite place as well, 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: Cause I love Ratatouille and 

Theron: Yeah

Matt: I’m willing to pay extra for really good food. So I’m, I, I’d be all in for that experience. 

Theron: [Chuckles]

Matt: I do want to talk about one experience specifically, I feel like I’ve said that three times now. [laughs] One ex, one experience specifically, that’s aboard the Disney Wish. And I feel like you know, I I sense Disney Cruise Line heading more in this direction. You know, Disney’s calling it the first ever Disney attraction at sea, which is the Aquamouse. So, you know, how does your, how does your team think about taking previous experiences on Disney Cruise Line and now delivering, you know, what’s considered to be the first ever Disney attraction at sea? And I know you’re not on the team anymore. But where do you sense? You know, Disney might go next beyond that?

Theron: Well, I one of the big things that the company talked to me and our you know, the initial team about was, we really want to innovate, it’s, at the time, it would have been 10 years between Fantasy and the Wish, I think it was about 10 years. So you know, in in ship terms, that’s a lifetime. 

Matt: Yeah

Theron: So we we were our kind of mandate was how do we really move our own needle? How do we really innovate versus the existing fleet? How do we take the unique aspects of, of a Disney experience at sea, which is unique than other ships; the way guests move on board a Disney ship is very different than the way that they move on other ships. And how do we innovate versus the industry, there was a lot of things going on in the industry, personal assistants, lots of technology, you know, opening doors with your smartphone, a lot of that kind of stuff were going on. So we had a pretty big gauntlet that was laid in front of us to to really find that innovation. That That’s kind of a Disney heritage, right? And certainly that was true with the classic ships, it was certainly true with the Disney and the Fantasy or with the Dream and the Fantasy, it will absolutely be that way with the Wish and the consecutive sister ships. Attraction at sea, I think that there had never been the technology available to really do that before. And when you think of the attractions, if you will, that are on the existing vessels. They’re all about enjoying the outdoors. You know, the the ship itself, as I mentioned, is mostly indoor venues. So when you take the AquaDuck, for example, and you have those clear slides, it’s it’s about recognizing I’m high up in the air and I’m above the ocean and I’m flying kind of in this, you know, sun and fun, and that in itself is really really cool. And and nobody had really done that before. They’re all enclosed tubes. So that was pretty brand new. But I can tell you the AquaMouse is going to be amazing. It’s uniquely Disney. It’s tied into, as the name suggests, the core character of Mickey, and Minnie and all of their friends. And I, I believe that it’s going to blow people away. What will come in the future iterations on that? We’ll have to see, we had a whole lot of ideas 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: On the board. So it just depends on on how all those come together. And it probably depends a lot on how well AquaMouse is received, right?

Matt: I’m I’m sure it’s gonna be received very well, and just be the beginning of what is to come. You know, one of these days, we’ll have a Tower of Terror on a Disney Cruise ship. 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: I don’t think that vessel could survive the weight of that. But you know, it’s that’s something maybe a virtual experience of some kind.

Theron: And when thinking of stuff that that’s on the you know outside of the ship. And you

Matt: Yeah, 

Theron: and you and you and you look in the industry, I mean, you’ve got a roller coaster, you’ve got a go-kart track, you’ve got, one of the ships has these arms that goes up, and it’s like an observation and, and it’s it’s gotten kind of crazy. When you sail those ships, what you realize is that weather prevents you from using them most of the time. 

Matt: Yeah

Theron: And the capacity is so low, you end up you know, sometimes there’s, if you’re on a ship with 6000 people, you’re they’re never gonna there’s a high likelihood you’re not going to be able to do that, right. So just like Disney’s not in the roller coaster races, you know, oh, Six Flags just built the highest, fastest, wooden whatever, Disney has never been in that race, you know, they’re a different breed. And it’s the same way with the ships. You don’t want to clutter the deck with a whole bunch of tubes, and, you know, all this crazy stuff, go-karts. So it’s it really is a fine balance of how do you find innovation in a way that preserves the brand experience outside and in, you know, doesn’t make the ship look sloppy?

Matt: Yeah, that’s very true. And it’s a good point to bring up as well. You want to make sure that everyone has the ability to experience these things if they want to, and not have to wait all day just to experience that once. One area we haven’t talked about, surprisingly, is the you know, we talked about dining, we talked about design, we talked about, you know, basic design in the name. And now, areas of activity in play. We haven’t talked about sleeping, you know, there’s, you know, you’re not only paying to board the ship, but also sleep on the ship. And there are all these different options that are available for staterooms. And so how does your team think about the design of the staterooms? And if I’m correct, I believe that Disney from the very beginning has thought differently about state room design compared to other Disney cruise ships. I’m sorry to other cruise ships as well.

Theron: That’s right. Yeah, for the longest time, if my memory serves me, right, the I think this was true of started with the classic ships. So with the Magic and the Wonder, the staterooms were much more generous in size, and the flow was considered and the interior of course, was finished in that classic way. It really made ripples in the industry and the Dream and the Fantasy followed suit with that. There was some really cool technology like the virtual portal inside and of course, that was copied just like the names of the Disney ships are copied. Carnival’s got a Dream and a Fantasy and everything. 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: But I know it it for the Disney fans, everybody giggles because it’s like yeah, right. It’s not ia Disney Dream. It’s a very different kind of dream. Some might say something otherwise, but, but no, they there’s Carnival has fans. But the the staterooms, maybe I’ll answer it like this. When you design a ship you there are so many confinements and you have to design within a very specific way. So for example, all of Disney’s ships are Panama Canal-able they can pass through the Panama Canal. Some of the larger ships that you see like Oasis of the Sea, Royal Caribbean, for example. That’s called Pan-x, it cannot go through the Panama Canal. It’s too wide is too tall. So because one of Disney’s criteria was that all of the ships would need to go through the Panama Canal that immediately minimized how wide we could be. And I can’t tell you how many times we would pull it up and go, Well can I can I make it this and we have to go a little bit higher and then we can do and then there’s some bridge somewhere that somebody smarter than me knows in the world that the ships all have to pass under. And there’s a limit of height, if you can believe it in the world, there’s a bridge. And it limits the height of the ship of every ship that goes under it, if you want to go in that space, so we had a maximum height, we had a maximum width, we didn’t want to go over a certain weight, etc. And what that does is it it, it limits what you can do on board. So we got really scientific on the Wish when laying out the staterooms. And not to get too complex, but that one of the big problems with the Titanic, sorry to bring that up on a cruise discussion, was that there wasn’t enough lifeboats for the passengers on board. So one thing that is a Coast Guard requirement is you obviously have to have spaces on lifeboats for everybody on board. So what that does is every deck is broken into zones. When you get on board, you do your lifeboat drill, that’s the zone for the lifeboat that you go into. So in some ships, we’ll just design the decks with staterooms and put the staterooms however they fit. And what you end up with is some strange sized rooms. Or you may have, for example, tried to book a Disney Cruise before. And you saw online that there was a room available that fit for people, and you called them and said, I want my four member family on that deck on that room. And they said, I’m sorry, we’re only allowed to have two people in that room. And you’ve gotten frustrated. And you said what it says four I don’t understand the challenges that on, I’m not throwing shade on anybody. But what I discovered was that those rooms were designed to fit, and sometimes they were done. So without consideration for life, boat capacity. So if you think about it from a business perspective, Disney is not selling two berths in that room, because the lifeboat for that particular zone is full with the other rooms. So we took that calculation on the Wish and designed the rooms to maximize, you know, you might have a two person room, a three person room, a four person room, and you you maximize all of that capacity for each lifeboat zone, so that you could fill all the rooms. So we’re doing good business. And we’re not creating frustration for guests when they see a four or five person room and you can book the whole room. So I I think that’s really important, we brought quite a bit of innovations into the rooms, I don’t know how much of that’s been talked about. So I’ll I’ll be a little careful with that. And then I’ll also say, and you can see all this on the videos of the Wish that I don’t know if it’s actually said this way, but if you go back and look at those videos, you’ll see that there are different classes of suites now; there’s a two-level suite that’s there, there’s the funnel suite, which is there. I think that’s probably named something really cool now, but that was our working title was the funnel suite. And you not only have the Roy and Walt level, but you then have the the the the double deck, two-floor, and the the suites. So some really, really great changes there, you’ll also see some thematic changes to the rooms that are really, really fun. Again, that tie back to that overall kind of motif. So it really is the best of Disney Cruise Line.

Matt: So exciting. I can’t wait for everyone to see it. And I know it’s coming out this summer, you know, assuming that nothing else happens in the world and that it can set sail this summer

Theron: Right, you have to put that caveat on everything now, 

Matt: Yeah I do, it’s always the disclaimer is assuming things 

Theron: Yeah

Matt: Even my own trip, assuming things go according to plan. This is this is what my plan is. Speaking of plans, I have a a couple of wrap up questions. So first up, personally, what are you most excited for people to see with the Disney Wish?

Theron: I there’s an 

Matt: Thank you can talk about. 

Theron: Yeah, no, I was just thinking I don’t think I don’t know that I can talk about this because I don’t think it’s been announced. But there’s where we put the the the children’s space that the place for the kids is I I just think it’s so smart. It’s so connected to where the adults are going to be, the access to this kid space and the way that we did that. I think I think moms and dads are really going to be really super excited about this. What what the innovation that we created with the pools. I have the sketch in my file here of the first time I sketched it. Those of you that have may have cruised before, especially with Disney because there’s so many kids you know that if there is, a little one has an accident in the pool. They have to drain the entire pool and clean it and sometimes that takes up to four hours. So you end up with with but that’s the main pool and there’s only one, if you’re an adult you can go to the adult space and you can, you know, kind of laze around in the pool there. But if you’re a family, you just lost access to the pool. So when you look at the videos and everything that have been posted online by Disney, about the Wish, you’ll see multiple pools that are now at different levels and on different decks. And we design that very specifically for that purpose, right? There’s, there’s kids, and somebody’s going to have an accident, because that’s the way you know kids are. But now you’re closing down only one of maybe, say, five pools. So you still get the interactive fun of playing in the water. There’s just an innovations like that, that that I just think people are going to really love. The way that we explored IP on the ship I think is super special. I really do believe that the new dining that’s on the ship is going to blow people away. Yeah, I I I have to say, I’m pretty excited. I it’s hard to nail down one or two.

Matt: [Laughs] That That’s a lot of things. But I mean, 

Theron; [Laughs]

Matt: at, it’s hard to, it it’s best to just narrow it down to one thing I know. But that’s a great list of things to look forward to. And last question is a personal question. So if you, well, the other one was too, but 

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: where where is your favorite cruise? You know, either port or destination? What’s your, your perfect itinerary for a Disney cruise?

Theron: Well, I my family and I really enjoyed the Baltic cruise. That’s probably one of my favorite places in the world is when you’re in Denmark and Sweden and Finland. And and at the time we were in St. Petersburg, Russia. And we actually this was quite a few years ago, took a flight from St. Petersburg into Moscow, and got to see Moscow and the subways and all this stuff. There’s just I just love that part of the world. And it was especially magical. Being with Disney. Every night is themed to the location. So you ended up with Russian dolls or Estonian Old Town, you know, Vikings, and it was just really, you know how Disney is right? They just did it right. All the entertainment was that way. They had special entertainers from the region that would come on board. I think it was a seven day cruise. So you get regional entertainment from that area that kind of matched all the stories and legends of Sweden, or Finland. And it was super fun. That was my favorite.

Matt: That’s great. I have to add that to my list at some point in the future. And you know, when I decided to finally take that the Disney Cruise, I finally take a cruise period, then I’ll have to I’ll have to add that to my list at some point as well. 

Theron: Definitely 

Matt: But Theron, thanks for chatting with me. As always, it’s always so much fun. I wasn’t sure exactly how how long we could talk about the Disney Cruise Line. But I’m realizing I think

Theron: [Laughs]

Matt: We probably could have talked even more about it with all the questions that I had. So always appreciate you coming on to the show. And why don’t you lay it for those who are watching live or who are listening, why don’t you let them know where they can go to find you, follow you, you know, interact with you online or anything else you want to plug?

Theron: Absolutely. Well I I run my own company now. It’s called the Designer’s Creative Studio. You can find me on YouTube and LinkedIn and Facebook group called the Imagineering Insider. I’m also writing a book with a friend of mine called How Does Disney do That? And we’ve started a Facebook page and a website, because we’re looking for people’s stories about Disney, and about how those experiences made them feel. So you could find me in a quite a few different places if I didn’t say so YouTube, Instagram as well. If you want to to follow me, I I work hard to try to put out a lot of videos. So people can stay in touch and learn about the industry. And unfortunately, my client list has gotten so big and busy. I haven’t been able to release too many videos recently. 

Matt: [Laughs]

Theron: But but but you could find me in all those places. 

Matt: And that’s just why I bring you onto the show. So you’re forced to sit down and create content with some kind if

Theron: [Laughs] Exactly

Matt: Through Imagineer Podcast at least [Laughs]

Theron: Now people can’t see it. But I actually have a shackle on you know, Matt did that to me, I can’t leave until the podcast is over.

Matt: Well we’re gonna wrap it up now. So Ther-, thanks everyone who’s watching live for a for watching live and bearing with the tech issues that I had at the start cause we’re trying a new system, new platforms and I’m a one man show so it’s really bound, something’s bound to go wrong one way or another. And Theron, thank you so much for for joining as well. It’s always a pleasure.

Theron: My pleasure.

[Music plays out Matt and Theron and continues under Matt’s outro]

Matt: And with that, we close out episode 135 of the Imagineer Podcast, I want to give a very special thank you as always to Theron for coming back to the show. He’s been a guest on the podcast so many times and it is always such a pleasure to chat with him about the different areas of Disney that he helps to bring to life and some of his insights about Walt Disney Imagineering and about the Walt Disney Company. I of course want to turn this conversation over to you and hear about your Disney Cruise Line experience. Have you sailed with Disney Cruise Line before? And are you planning to take a trip aboard the Disney Wish and if so, let me know when you can send me your answers and feedback as always in many different ways you can reach out on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn @Imagineer Podcast. You can also reach out on Twitter @Imagineernews, and of course you can join our Facebook group the ImagiNation, also called the Imagineer Podcast, Disney Fan Community, a place where you can chat not just with me, but also with other members of our listener community about this subject and all subjects relating to all things Disney. If you don’t already, subscribe to the show. And make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button whether you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Podbean, Google Podcasts, IHeartMedia, Amazon Music, or any other podcast apps that you are the first to know when new podcast episodes become available. And if you’d like a new way to engage with Imagineer Podcast, I have received feedback over the last few years time and time again that you want YouTube. And while I in the past have struggled to find a way to really make this a reasonable way for me to add content within a reasonable schedule and make sure that you get the video content that you want, I have decided to just go ahead with it and do my best as I always do with creating that content and bringing it to life for you. So that I I would definitely encourage you to head to our YouTube channel, which is just Imagineer Podcasts on YouTube or youtube.com/imagineerpodcast, I’ve got a link in the show notes for you as well and encourage you to please hit subscribe, please share out our YouTube channel. And please do watch our video content, hit like, comment on it whatever you can to help us to reach that monetization status on YouTube which will help to justify get new content, and and long story short form, really makes sure that we can keep the lights on with YouTube. So head there and I would encourage you to reach out if there are any ideas that you would like to see or any particular types of content you would like to see on our YouTube channel. I would also encourage you if you are looking to take your love of Imagineer Podcast to the next level and help support the show at the same time to join our Patreon group, which is over at patreon.com/imagineerpodcast got a link for you in the show notes there as well. I’ve got all the links for you in the show notes. And yet that’s a way that you can support the show and get extra perks and rewards and content. Things like bonus podcast episodes, early access to every podcast episode, a private Facebook community, weekly watch parties, and so much more. These terms and conditions are subject to change depending on when you’re listening to the show. But I would encourage you to see what’s currently available again by heading to patreon.com/imagineerpodcast. And when you are ready to book your next trip to Walt Disney World, Disneyland, Aulani, Adventures by Disney, or of course Disney Cruise Line, I would encourage you to check out our travel partner Magical Park Vacations and you can learn more about them by heading to magicalparkvacations.com, and I’ve got a link again for you in the show notes below. And you can also work with their sister company WDW Park Planners at wdwparkplanners.com to get an extra level concierge level service in helping to plan out your itinerary for your next Disney vacation. I’ve personally used WDW Park Planners they make my life so much easier when it comes to planning a Disney vacation. They alleviate so much stress when it comes to thinking about making sure I’m up at a certain time to book dining reservations and trying to plan out my day and coordinate activity with family members. They really can help to ease a lot of that to do on your to-do lists and make sure that you get the very best experience on your next Disney vacation. So again, head to magicalparkvacations.com and wdwparkplanners.com to learn more. Last but not least, I would like to encourage you as I always do to go after your hopes, your dreams, your goals, whatever they might be, to make those dreams a reality. And remember, as always that inspiring quote from Horizons if you can dream it, you can do it. Thank you so much for listening to the show and we’ll see you again in a future episode of The Imagineer Podcast.

[Music fades out]

[New music plays under commercial narrator one]

Female Commercial Narrator One: Something new is on the horizon where the most fantastical magical things happen. And your wishes really do come true.

[Music ends]

[New music begins and plays under commercial narrator two and Matt]

Female Commercial Narrator Two: When you’re at Walt Disney World Resort for the world’s most magical celebration, every moment is amazing. The joy is never ending, and the memories last a lifetime. Because when you celebrate with us, nothing could be more magical.

Matt: Contact Magical Park Vacations to book your Walt Disney World Resort vacation today, Call 585-662-3686 or visit magicalparkvacations.com

[Music ends]

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